Fuel Sourcing

Discussion of how to ensure local supply of fuel explored several options:
1.Make biodiesel from waste vegetable oil (WVO).
This option requires testing for every batch made, to reach ASTM6751 specification.

2.Canadian biodiesel
This is K50/veggie oil 50 and is not approved for on road use. American Independence fuels has been offering this blend for months, at very competitive prices, below $3.00 per gallon. The secret? Illegally providing untaxed kerosene as fuel. Good intentions aside, American has been fined heftily by Maryland Transportation Authority.

3.Fuel from October.
Our B100 that gelled upon delivery to our main tank has been transported off site and will be offered for sale when the weather warms up. 'New' price will be $3.26 per gallon for those couple hundred gallons of fuel, in the spring.

4.Small truck purchase
Trucks under 26000 pounds operating weight do not require the driver to have a commercial driver's license (CDL). Piedmont Biofuels (in North Carolina) ran their coop out of a 1500 gallon truck before the creation of their biodiesel corridor. They now have 7 fueling stations across NC. A truck would lower coop operation costs because we could buy fuel in larger batches, directly from the suppliers. Currently delivery charges of $0.80 per gallon ($320 per 400 galon batch) are incurred every three weeks or less.

Fuel Crisis

Every member that filled up on 10/13/2007 has been affected by bad fuel performance. Ilya Goldberg reported his first problem occurred the week before the meeting (week of December 1st), many weeks after filling up with questionable fuel. Ilya used an off the shelf 'Gel Melter' to unplug his fuel filter-he washed the fuel filter with it and was able to drive home.
A word of caution to all members that filled up the weekend of 10/13- if you have not run your tank down, close to empty, you may have a very high gel point plug waiting to leave your tank and plug up your fuel filter. Once warm weather hits (somewhere in the 70's) the plug should melt. This fuel is fine for your engine, it just hardens at ridiculously high temperatures (in the 50's). Keeping your tank above 1/'4 full should avoid any problems this winter.

The coop has required a certificate of ASTM6751 specification for each batch of fuel we have sold since November.
We have tested for water, glycerol, proper pH, as well.

The fleet of public buses in Harrisburg, PA has been plagued by similar fuel issues, using a B5 blend. Apparently the high gel point fuel can be traced to B100 made from palm oil and barged into the Baltimore port. B100 from palm oil has a cloud point of 11C (degrees centigrade) or higher and will not be accepted as a source by the coop. We will ensure smooth running by requiring gel point below 4C.

Volunteering

1.Please email Mare Cromwell to enhance our contact list;
marecrom@gmail.com

2.Include special skills you can offer the coop, e.g., marketing, technical, organizational

December Meeting

8 December 2007
6 members and Greg Hanscom (the Urbanite) in attendance.

-Volunteering
-Fuel crisis
-Fuel sourcing
-Tech Committee report

See separate posts above for commentary or to start a thread.

NY TIMES article

Nice read. Now if we can get the city to do the same.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/us/02diesel.html?

Winter Blend For Sale

Is anybody out there? Just kidding, folks, I know Andrew reads this blog once in a while.
Mare Cromwell requested an update for Baltimore Biodiesel Cooperative members, so here it is:
The technical committee has requested K50B50 (soy) be sold as the winter blend.
Fuel liaison Mark Eckley was unable to secure this blend from McComas Fuel Company and had to go to Taylor Oil for the blend.

We'll be selling it Friday and Saturday, November 30 and December 1, 2007.
Price will reflect huge uptick in K1 and B100 prices: $4.30 per gallon.

See you out there at Mill Valley!
Renewal of membership dues is due as the anniversary date has passed... just a friendly reminder ;-))

No Fuel Thanksgiving Weekend

We will not be able to sell fuel this weekend, but we did find some soy biodiesel, cloud point 0C.
That's 20 degrees F below the cloud point listed for the fuel we just removed from our tank.

We will be selling B50K50, our winter blend, starting Friday November 30.

Quality Control Program

Discussion of how to make sure we are delivering the best biodiesel possible led to the following resolutions:
The coop will require our supplier to buy only 100% soy biodiesel. The high gelling point of the current fuel is unacceptable (solid fuel at 40 F is not possible with soy biodiesel).\
The coop will require documentation of the cloud point of fuel from the supplier, in keeping with ASTM 6751 standard.
Mark Eckley and John Shepley will be the contacts for McComas or Taylor fuel supply companies.

The coop will install a fuel/water separator filter on the storage tank. Water encourages microbial growth that can cause sputtering. Condensation within the tank is unavoidable in fall and spring when temperature swings are large and humidity levels in the air change. This fuel polishing system will remove water from the fuel and also filter out any microbes. Estimated cost of $300 will be paid with coop funds.

The storage tank will be emptied and rinsed with kerosene before a new batch of fuel is purchased. The tech committee hopes this will be necessary only this one time. However, each batch of fuel will be tested with a pHlip test available from Cyto Culture Environmental labs. 10 field tests were purchased and will be used to evaluate the next batches of fuel, before sale to members.

Fuel additives and fuel filters will be made available to members, at cost, at the kiosk in Mill Valley. Please email your requests to the Yahoo! group or post them here on the blog as comments. The tech committee will also work on publishing a handbook for all members to help avoid fuel issues in the winter and when first acclimating your car to biodiesel.

Poll results

Several members responded to our poll:
Of 15 respondents, 10 members had fuel quality issues, ranging from gelled fuel lines, to sputtering engine performance due to clogged fuel filters.
4 fill up weekly, 6 every other week and 5 less frequently.
Suggestions included:
Better communication.
Card swipe machine.
Testing fuel on site before sale to members.
Buy fuel polishing, water separator filter system.

Meeting Notes, November 10, 2007

12 members in attendance.
We focused on fuel quality.
3 measures were voted on and passed:
1- We will test each batch received from our supplier and require delivery of B100 derived from Soy oil.
Measure passed 12-0
2-Fuel polishing system will be installed to remove water and filter fuel prior to sale.
Measure passed 12-0
3-Tech committee 'crisis pay'
Measure passed 8-1

Several other topics were discussed and some duties were delegated.
A) Notifying membership of fuel issues.
Steve Howard will assist Mare Cromwell in assembling a member e-mail database. These signups may coincide with signup for the automated fueling setup.

Tech committee and Davis Bookhart will send a message to the membership via the Yahoo! group if further fuel issues crop up.

B) Membership renewals are coming due.
Please leave a legible copy of your email address when fueling up on your next visit. Also plan to pay your $30 for dues.

C) Remediation for expenses, due to fuel problems.
Submit a detailed description of your fuel problem and costs (towing, etc.) to Davis Bookhart. Davis has $ to disperse to inconvenienced members.

Fuel Update

All,

I want to report on the status of our fuel, selling, and next steps.

The coop will not be able to sell fuel this weekend. The fuel in our tank is gelled at this point, and last ditch efforts to thaw it and empty the tank last night didn't succeed. We need to work with our supplier and find other resources to get the tank completely emptied and cleaned sufficiently to put a winter blend in it. Because of the amount of unknowns about this fuel, we do not want to try to blend it with kerosene or anything else to try to sell it.

I don't want to comment in detail about the quality of the fuel for fear of mis-leading anyone. We don't have all the answers yet. Here is what we do know for sure. The fuel that we have in our tank and had sold for the past several weeks was bought by us as a B99, ASTM certified fuel, but it is gelling at even higher temperatures than one would expect for Soy-based biodiesel. It has gelled in the tanks of several people's cars, causing them to need to be towed and repaired. When it gels, it seems to form a milky white solid, the consistency of Crisco. Many people have used it, some in 100% concentrations, with no apparent problems. We don't really know the underlying cause, although several possibilities are strongly suspected and are being tested. To that end, Mark Eckley and I will have a conference call to McComas today to try to find out if ASTM traceability for this fuel can be verified and the results of tests (if any) that have been performed yet. We will also explore with McComas remedies to our situation - both emptying our tank, and the 500 gallons of unuseable fuel we now own. Mark and I will report on that conversation later today.

If you have used this fuel recently, and your car has been running well for the past week, there is no reason to suspect you have anything to worry about. If your car starts roughly, stalls, or runs badly, it is possible that you have some gelled fuel in your system. From what's been reported, if the Biodiesel is blended with petroleum to at least 50% when it is a liquid, it will pass through the engine with no ill effects. If it gels first, it will not easily blend with petroleum until it thaws. A couple of additives have been suggested that may help the situation. One is called Arctic Exprees (by Power Systems). Another is called Power Service which is available at Advance Auto parts. Don't hesitate to use either at double the recommended dose. They will help de-gel the fuel, will disperse water,a nd will help keep filters / injectors clear. I suggest, if you suspect gelling, that you add the additives to your tank and try to start your car and let it idle during the warmest part of the day. Let it idle for a while. The engine recirculates warm fuel back to the tank which can help de-gel the fuel and help the additives do their job. If it seems to run okay, go and add petro diesel.

Several people have been working very hard to resolve the fuel issue. Folks spend considerable time last weekend and this week trying to drain, clear, thaw, or otherwise resolve these fuel issues. I appreciate everyone's efforts, and even more imploortantly, I greatly appreciate the positive attitude most members have expressed about these issues and about the good things the coop is accomplishing in spite of this setback. Thank you all.

John

John Shepley

Baltimore Biodiesel Coop.

Jshepley@greenroofplants.com

http://www.baltimorebiodiesel.org

Letter to Coop Members - gelling issues

Dear Members,

As you may know, a number of Members have had trouble with biodiesel over the past few weeks. We believe these problems are caused by the high temperature gel point of the current batch of biodiesel. It is important to note that the biodiesel is good quality - it will not damage your engine - but is vulnerable to cold weather. We are working to correct this problem by "winterizing" the fuel.

If you recently purchased biodiesel from the coop and still have a significant amount in your tank, we strongly recommend taking the following actions:

1. Top off your tank with regular #2 diesel fuel or #1 diesel fuel (kerosene) if available.

2. Get some Arctic Express (by Power Systems) fuel additive and double the recommended treatment.

We are working with our supplier to replace our current fuel and to get our winter mix of soy oil and kerosene. This worked well all last winter and should allow us to resume our normal operations. We plan to institute a more vigerous testing and monitoring regimine to ensure that Members always get the highest quality fuel that is properly mixed during the winter months.

We apologize to our members who had problems with gelling fuel, and we are discussing ways in which we can use a small allocation of coop funding to help defray a portion of the costs incurred . For all members who did have troubles, please send a note to me directly (dbookhart@gmail.com).

While the problems with gelling fuel were not realted to the quality of the fuel (it is good quality), we've decided this is a good opportunity to take additional steps to ensure that the fuel quality remains high. In the next week or so, we will be installing a new filtration system that will clean and "polish" the fuel daily.

We hope to have the winterized fuel and the new filtration system in place as soon as possible. Until then, we appreciate your patience and look forward to filling your cars up again real soon.

Warmest regards,

Davis Bookhart
President, Baltimore Biodiesel Coop

Coop Meeting November 10, 2007

All members encouraged to attend.
Gather at Mill Valley center, 1030am.

Meeting wil run from 11am to noon.

Winterizing Fuel for 2007-2008

The last two days have seen cold temperatures around the cloud point of biodiesel fuel.
Unfortunately several coop members have experienced problems starting their cars. Check the message board of the Yahoo! group to follow the complete thread. Other members have experienced poor engine performance in several makes and models of car, as well, pointing to the fuel as the culprit.

A common concern raised is water in the fuel or fuel storage tank.

We need volunteers to remove the sludge discovered by John Shepley and McComas Fuel's delivery man/tester recently.

Can we do this 'cleaning' before delivery of kerosene to winterize the current batch of B99?

Saturday 130pm Mark Eckley will arrive at Mill Valley to commence sludge removal.
Any other volunteers?


Here is correspondence about the tank (digested by your faithful secretary)
1--------------------
Shepley wrote>>
FYI...
Here is Info from Ted Rouse, where he asked Doug (the guy who provided our tank) about it's history.

Can we organize some volunteers to look into opening the drain cock on the tank and removing some sludge? Other near-term solutions would be to rais the intake to about 3-6 inches off the bottom and to transfer the contents (The upper, presumably clean fuel) to another tank or drums to separate it from the sludge.
John

2---------------------
Ted Rouse wrote>>[mailto:wr@...]

Here is Doug’s response….
tank was cleaned and visually inspected prior to delivery. sludge in the bottom is inevitable in a new tank. That is why there is a drain cock in the bottom to drain water relatedstuff out. doug

Biodiesel Mechanic Suggestion

I thought I might pass around my very happy last trip to the mechanic. I needed a lot of work on my '95 E300D, it just kept running so I kept deferring my trip to the mechanic. I got several estimates and my trusty mechanic had given me the lowest bid. He did much more work than originally planned (all well needed) and still came in $150 under his original already low bid on the work. When I picked up the car friday evening it ran like a top.

So if anyone is looking for a mechanic I highly recommend Brian and his crew at Mt. Washington Autohaus. I have had 5 different vehicles worked on at Autohaus over the last 10+ years but this last trip takes the case. And this trip was for my diesel Mercedes and I knew I was going to spend some cash for this trip.

He seems to really know his cars and he has quite a few diesels through his shop.

When I picked up the car friday there was an early 90's Mercedes TurboDiesel for sale parked on his lot. It looks nice and is owned by another customer of the shop. If anyone knows anyone looking for one drive by see if if you like it.

If you are looking for a mechanic who knows his diesels go to Autohaus. They are on Falls Rd. by the Kelly Ave bridge.

Cheers.

Jim

October 13, 2007. Topic 4

4-Fueling Kiosk setup
Please visit
http://biodiesel-kiosk.blogspot.com/
for all the details.

$2500 budget was proposed by Ilya Goldberg and Andrew Gellene for a credit card/PIN system that will operate on battery power. A card swipe, keypad and LCD screen will all be accessible on the fueling cage. We will use the current pump and tank.
The kiosk will allow members to purchase fuel anytime they wish.
Measure to provide Ilya Goldberg $2500 to purchase components and build kiosk was passed, 6-0.
John Shepley has permission to provide funds to Ilya Goldberg upon request.

Important note to membership:
The cooperative anniversary date is coming soon. Prepare to pay your annual dues for 2007-2008 on your next visit to Mill Valley.

When the kiosk becomes operable, members will be able to register a PIN with their name. Once registered members can purchase fuel with any valid credit card bearing their name. Entering the PIN will activate the pump. Swiping the card will allow the cage to be opened and then member can dispense fuel. A flow sensor will calculate the total purchase price and charge the credit card swiped.

'One Day Wonders' can try our biofuel by paying $10 online and register for a 24 hour PIN. The $10 would be credited to their first purchase. The board assumes the first purchase will convince the Wonder to return and join the Coop as a regular member, for the $30 annual fee.

October 13, 2007. Topic 3

3-McComas heating oil 'partnership' research, signage and referrals
Kickback of 1 cent per gallon has been offered by McComas Fuel Co. for referring biofuel customers for home heating oil.
Coop would display a sign at the kiosk. Board agreed the sign must be made by McComas themselves.
Currently McComas includes a Baltimore Biodiesel logo on their ads run in City Paper.
Discussion of level of kickback revealed lack of knowledge of the current home oil heating fuel market that might be interested in biofuel blends.

Measure to research the market over the coming winter and display a sign rendered by McComas at our booth in Mill Valley was passed, 5-1.

October 13, 2007. Topic 2

2-Volunteer perks
4 incentives were discussed
a.volunteer 2x per year and receive fuel at cost. Cost was not specified.
b.free fill up for whoever is volunteering that day.
c.point system based on hours worked, with a 'wage' value kept track of.
d.percentage of weekly profit credited to volunteer.

Measure D level was suggested, after consideration of $200 weekly profit.
20% of profit should be credited to volunteer(s). 2 volunteer slots per week.

$20 merchandise will be offered to volunteer on the day of work.
'Merchandise':Fuel, membership fee offset, bumper stickers, etcetera.
Measure D passed, 5-0

October 13, 2007. Topic 1

1-Winterization of fuel
B50 blend suggested 50%kerosene/50%biofuel.

Date of blend introduction between this week (October 20) and week of November 10.
No point person was named.
No vote was taken.

test

test

Meeting Notes October 13, 2007

October 13, 2007
Mill Valley Center, 11am
6 members in attendance.
4 issues discussed and 3 resulting measures were voted on.
1-Winterization of fuel

2-Volunteer perks

3-McComas heating oil 'partnership' research

4-Fueling Kiosk setup

Details are in separate entries to the blog, above.
Thanks to members for any and all comments!

Next meeting, November 10, 2007.
1030am, Mill Valley Center.

Biodiesel Car suggestions and links

-Yes, most of our members run VWs or Mercedes. I'd check out
>www.craiglist.com and www.cars.com for good deals on diesels. The used ones

>go quick because everyone wants to run biodiesel these days. In 2008,
>however, there should be a much larger supply of new diesels on the market.

>The car companies realize that the biodiesel industry is heating up.
>
>Any diesel engine, of course, can run biodiesel without conversion or
>modification. There's only a couple of caveats: 1) cars made before 1990
>need rubber hoses replaced with viton (I finally found a good website that
>explains the issue: http://www.greaseworks.org/viton); 2) VWs, even newer
>ones, seem to run better with more regular changes of the fuel filter (say
>every 6 months); and 3) a lower blend of biodiesel (between B20 and B50)
>needs to be used in colder weather so as to avoid gelling in the engine. We

>sell B50 from about November to March.
>
>
>Jeremy
>1984 Mercedes 300TD, 245K miles.
>
>
>
>Kbpilla <kbpilla@gmail.com> wrote:
>Very intrested in any feedback on what are the best cars to run on
>biodiesel and reliabilty issues if any....
>
>
>Thanks------------------------------
>Looking

2004 Jetta TDI and the snow screen location

>The snow screen is under the air box, and in the
>intake pipe. Not all cars have them, apparently even
>from the same years. In my cars the 2003 has one while
>the 2004 does not. You can also remove them if you
>want to not bother with it but VW does then offer a
>special air filter that has a bottom filtration to
>help keep some of that big stuff out of the filter.
>Some people say it matters, some people say that
>neither the screen or special filter make any
>difference at all.
>
>good video to show it.
>http://pics.tdiclub.com/video/cincitdi/snowscreen.html
>
>
>
>--- Willy Wonka <feverwilly@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Where is the snow screen and how do you clean it out
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Aug 13, 2007, at 2:57 PM, Tim Rhodes
> > <timrhodes@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > I know I'm a little late to the party (been out of
> > the
> > country for a bit) but wanted to add my two cents.
> >
> > It sounds like your N75 valve might have failed/been
> > replaced. It controls the vanes in the turbo, and
> > can
> > lead to power issues. This has hoses that connect to
> > the turbo, which depending on miles could have been
> > replaced. But typically this issue is found by your
> > car going into limp mode, which resets itself each
> > time you start the car. The same for vacuum leaks
> > from bad hoses for the most part is how I understand
> > it. But no matter what, no actual bioD is going into
> > your turbo. So unless there is some strange exhaust
> > it is creating, these issues are not related to the
> > bioD use. Clogged fuel filter is, but not turbo
> > related issues.
> >
> > If the problems have gone away, great. If they
> > return, I would suggest checking out the MAF. I had
> > some very weird stuff happening including loss of
> > power like that, but finally was able to change out
> > the MAF. It was night and day for my car. Also a
> > number of the TDIs came with devices called
> > "snowscreens" which can lead to reduced power as
> > they
> > get filled and restrict airflow into the engine.
> >
> > I am no mechanic but am happy to help folks if I
> > have
> > the time. My contribution to the co-op has been
> > laughable up to this point so maybe I can help out
> > in
> > this way. In the least I can show folks how to do
> > the
> > easy stuff like oil changes, fuel filter changes,
> > snowscreen cleanings, checking/replacing glowplugs,
> > air/cabin filter changes etc.
> >
> > -Tim
> >
> > --- nose1@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > Hi!
> > > I have a 2004 Jetta TDI and I'm having problems, I
> > > think because of using
> > > biodiesel. I replaced the fuel filter after the
> > > first month (this Spring). Just
> > > recently I started losing power when I accelerate
> > on
> > > hills. I took my car in
> > > and they replaced some hoses and a valve
> > (something
> > > related to the turbo). They
> > > advised me not to use biodiesel. I would still
> > like
> > > to though (it's one of the
> > > reasons why I bought the car). Has anybody had an
> > > experience like this? Can
> > > you give me advice?
> > > THANKS!
> > > Margaret
> > >

Pumping Action!!! Aug 4th

I had a great time pumping the biofuel this Sat. It has been a while and I met some new faces and some old ones. I mean old in the very age positive way... We had a new member join. Welcome Alison!!! She was very excited and took pictures. Her husband was on hand to commemorate the occasion. I asked her to post the pics on our photobucket site to appear on the website. We had about 10 members fill up and it was HOT HOT HOT. We even sold some of my favorite bumper stickers "Biodiesel Turns Me On". Several folks ask about the new pump situation and I told them to go to the meeting this sat to learn more.

Thats about it. See everyone in the green environment.

Andrew

Mechanics

Can we post preferred / reputable mechanics? Or at least get there names and contact them about paying to advertise on our site? I think I have a few from an old email. But if anyone has a more comprehensive list, we (ok, maybe I) could get working on contacting them. $50/month to advertise?

carri www.brennanarch.com
www.alter-e.com
www.baltimoregreenweek.org
www.baltimorebiodiesel.org

Preservation.  Celebration.  Rejuvenation.

Email test successful but

Notice that the email I sent did post but it is not very well organized. So it would be great if folks wanted to post a topic and then people use the comment feature to ad their 2 cents. I will clean it up after a few days...

Discussion about adding cars recommendations to the website...

To make blogging easier I have set this email address: blog954.baltimorebiodiesel@blogger.com

 

Up to post our blogs all you have to do is email this address and it will post whatever the subject is as a title and the body as the text.

 

Check this email out at www.baltimorebiodiesel.blogspot.com

 

 

---

From: keith.losoya@gmail.com [mailto:keith.losoya@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Keith Losoya
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:36 PM
To: David Saffell
Cc: carrime@comcast.net; igg@cathilya.org; Andrew Gellene; Davis Bookhart; Jeremy Caradonna; Mare Cromwell; Paul Kovalcik; Ted Rouse; William McComas
Subject: Re: FOR SALE!

 

Yes we should add diesel mechanics/services but we also should consider this an advertising revenue source. E.g. we will advertise your services on our site in exchange for membership or another amicable advertising fee. Not being greedy but if the goal is to develop as many revenue streams as possible to assist with our educational outreach and overall growth we need to develop these potential channels and this is one obvious candidate.

On 7/25/07, David Saffell <redhens@peoplepc.com> wrote:

And there's ebay also. 

 

We could publish and post on our site a list of mfgs, models and years of diesel vehicles gleaned from our collective knowledge. This would give the uninitiated a starting point. We could also have a FAQ where inquiring minds could post their questions. We could add diesel mechanic/service locations also, which we have talked about, not sure whether that has happened.

 

D.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Keith Losoya

To: carrime@comcast.net

Cc: igg@cathilya.org ; Andrew Gellene ; David Saffell ; Davis Bookhart ; Jeremy Caradonna ; Mare Cromwell ; Paul Kovalcik ; Ted Rouse ; William McComas

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:13 PM

Subject: Re: FOR SALE!

 

You got it...BLOG IT!!

There are several updates to the website that Andrew has in the pipeline and he said they will be done in about two weeks. Updated membership agreements and bylaws plus pictures and we are considering a page specifically dedicated to Home Heating so we educate our current members on the benefits of Biodiesel for home heating this winter.

As for cars. If you go to cars.com and do an advanced search that queries all diesel vehicles within 30 miles of a local zip code you will see an ok selection. A large portion of the inventory is via dealership but many private. The challenges are how can we let these sellers know about us, how do we promote our online ads and quite frankly who in our coop really has the time to spend on this if they don't get some sort of reasonable compensation directly.

On 7/25/07, carrime@comcast.net < carrime@comcast.net> wrote:

Well, if there really is a large pool of used diesel inventory, I don't see a problem with posting ads (pay to post). I also think it would be a good idea to have a section of testimony and stories of members and they're experience with biodiesel and the cars they put it in. I love talking about my car! Maybe that's what the blog is supposed to be for???

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Keith Losoya" < keith@csballiance.org>
> The limited variety of new makes/models in the US is a problem but there is
> a larger pool of used inventory available- be it VW, Mercedes, Jeep Liberty
> or misc. trucks.
>
> As people in the area make the decision to move to diesel for Bio reasons
> they will usually find our site because of biodiesel.org  They may have
> emotionally bought into the need to transition over to a diesel vehicle and
> use biodiesel but need to get the car first. When they go to our site they
> can see cars for sale to help them achieve their goals.
>
> Perhaps we can have a category for ADVERTISING MEMBERS where they pay
> $30-$50 for us to post their car on our site?????
>
> On 7/25/07, carrime@comcast.net < carrime@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > Isn't the problem that there aren't any car manufacturers currently making
> > diesel engines? I've certainly heard more people looking for cars rather
> > than selling their diesels. Maybe we need to be talking to car dealers and
> > checking in with manufacturers.
> >
> > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > From: "Andrew Gellene" < andrew@dbcardsolutions.com>
> > > I think this is a great idea.  I have seen a lot of information that
> > gets
> > > passed in the yahoo email blast that should be captured in the
> > blog.  This
> > > can be a starting point to gather content for web publishing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: keith.losoya@gmail.com [mailto: keith.losoya@gmail.com] On Behalf
> > Of
> > > Keith Losoya
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:18 PM
> > > To: igg@cathilya.org; Andrew Gellene; carrime@comcast.net; David
> > Saffell;
> > > Davis Bookhart; Jeremy Caradonna; Mare Cromwell; Paul Kovalcik; Ted
> > Rouse;
> > > William McComas
> > > Subject: FOR SALE....
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > As most of you know Davis, John and I met with a Crown representative
> > > today to discuss the sale of biodiesel at the station and promoting
> > > Baltimore Biodiesel. John or Davis will fill you in on the details of
> > > that meeting but one thing we discussed that has been a missing part
> > > of our mission was the sale of diesel cars.
> > >
> > > Remember, supplying the need is one thing but we suggest Baltimore
> > > Biodiesel should also be about promoting the sale of diesel
> > > automobiles. We have seen various interests and questions when people
> > > are in the market and contact our group but perhaps the marketing
> > > committee can discuss a way to post cars for sale and drive potential
> > > buyers to the website to purchase. Perhaps we can work out a
> > > fee/commission with the seller in return for this service?
> > >
> > > Just some thoughts that need to be explored but it would be nice to
> > > list automobiles on our site for coop members interested in buying
> > > another or referring to a friend or newcomers looking for a diesel
> > > vehicle.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Keith Losoya
> > > Executive Director
> > > Chesapeake Sustainable Business Alliance
> > > P: 443-838-1826
> > > Fax:410-342-1486
> > > Keith@CSBAlliance.org
> > >
> > > We never know the worth of water till the well is dry.  ~Thomas
> > > Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Keith Losoya
> Executive Director
> Chesapeake Sustainable Business Alliance
> P: 443-838-1826
> Fax:410-342-1486
> Keith@CSBAlliance.org
>
> We never know the worth of water till the well is dry.  ~Thomas Fuller,
> Gnomologia, 1732
>
> --
> Keith Losoya
> Executive Director
> Chesapeake Sustainable Business Alliance
> P: 443-838-1826
> Fax:410-342-1486
> Keith@CSBAlliance.org
>
> We never know the worth of water till the well is dry.  ~Thomas Fuller,
> Gnomologia, 1732

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Keith Losoya" < keith@csballiance.org>
To:  igg@cathilya.org, "Andrew Gellene" <andrew@dbcardsolutions.com >, "carrime@comcast.net" <carrime@comcast.net>, "David Saffell" < redhens@peoplepc.com>, "Davis Bookhart" <dbookha1@jhuadig.admin.jhu.edu>, "Jeremy Caradonna" < jeremycaradonna@hotmail.com>, "Mare Cromwell" <marecrom@gmail.com>, "Paul Kovalcik" <pkovalcik@biohabitats.com >, "Ted Rouse" <wr@sber.com>, "William McComas" <wam@shapirosher.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:22:34 +0000
Subject: FOR SALE!
The limited variety of new makes/models in the US is a problem but there is a larger pool of used inventory available- be it VW, Mercedes, Jeep Liberty or misc. trucks.

As people in the area make the decision to move to diesel for Bio reasons they will usually find our site because of biodiesel.org  They may have emotionally bought into the need to transition over to a diesel vehicle and use biodiesel but need to get the car first. When they go to our site they can see cars for sale to help them achieve their goals.

Perhaps we can have a category for ADVERTISING MEMBERS where they pay $30-$50 for us to post their car on our site?????

On 7/25/07, carrime@comcast.net <carrime@comcast.net> wrote:

Isn't the problem that there aren't any car manufacturers currently making diesel engines? I've certainly heard more people looking for cars rather than selling their diesels. Maybe we need to be talking to car dealers and checking in with manufacturers.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Andrew Gellene" < andrew@dbcardsolutions.com >
> I think this is a great idea.  I have seen a lot of information that gets
> passed in the yahoo email blast that should be captured in the blog.  This
> can be a starting point to gather content for web publishing.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: keith.losoya@gmail.com [mailto: keith.losoya@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
> Keith Losoya
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:18 PM
> To: igg@cathilya.org; Andrew Gellene; carrime@comcast.net; David Saffell;
> Davis Bookhart; Jeremy Caradonna; Mare Cromwell; Paul Kovalcik; Ted Rouse;
> William McComas
> Subject: FOR SALE....
>
> All,
>
> As most of you know Davis, John and I met with a Crown representative
> today to discuss the sale of biodiesel at the station and promoting
> Baltimore Biodiesel. John or Davis will fill you in on the details of
> that meeting but one thing we discussed that has been a missing part
> of our mission was the sale of diesel cars.
>
> Remember, supplying the need is one thing but we suggest Baltimore
> Biodiesel should also be about promoting the sale of diesel
> automobiles. We have seen various interests and questions when people
> are in the market and contact our group but perhaps the marketing
> committee can discuss a way to post cars for sale and drive potential
> buyers to the website to purchase. Perhaps we can work out a
> fee/commission with the seller in return for this service?
>
> Just some thoughts that need to be explored but it would be nice to
> list automobiles on our site for coop members interested in buying
> another or referring to a friend or newcomers looking for a diesel
> vehicle.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Keith Losoya
> Executive Director
> Chesapeake Sustainable Business Alliance
> P: 443-838-1826
> Fax:410-342-1486
> Keith@CSBAlliance.org
>
> We never know the worth of water till the well is dry.  ~Thomas
> Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732
>

--
Keith Losoya
Executive Director
Chesapeake Sustainable Business Alliance
P: 443-838-1826
Fax:410-342-1486
Keith@CSBAlliance.org

We never know the worth of water till the well is dry.  ~Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

--
Keith Losoya
Executive Director
Chesapeake Sustainable Business Alliance
P: 443-838-1826
Fax:410-342-1486
Keith@CSBAlliance.org

We never know the worth of water till the well is dry.  ~Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

--
Keith Losoya
Executive Director
Chesapeake Sustainable Business Alliance
P: 443-838-1826
Fax:410-342-1486
Keith@CSBAlliance.org

We never know the worth of water till the well is dry.  ~Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

--
Keith Losoya
Executive Director
Chesapeake Sustainable Business Alliance
P: 443-838-1826
Fax:410-342-1486
Keith@CSBAlliance.org

We never know the worth of water till the well is dry.  ~Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732